If God is here – Where is He?

Where is God?  In the same space as us?

So – what about God?  Does He figure out how to exist in a different space from us – but still be “in the same area” as us?

I have to say right up front – I am not going to tell you where He is – other than to say everywhere. I’m also not going to tell you exactly how this can be true – that He is everywhere. My goal is to give you a possible way that He can be.

From Defending your Faith by Dan Story, we see the diagram to the right (unless you’re on a small device, then it might be below):

As you can see by the ** notation, God is present everywhere at once.  And, by God, he means the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  The Trinity.

From our physical object and our physical people examples above, this seems odd.  Impossible even.  How can God occupy the same space as we do?  Having said that, there is the case of Jesus when He walked the earth.  I’m sure if He’d ever occupied the exact same space as one of the disciples, that would have been recorded!  So obviously, we’re talking a spiritual level here – not physical.

Where is God?  Omnipresent?

Let’s see what the Bible says about this ” where is God” question.

The Father – everywhere, at all times

Jer 23:23 “Am I only a God nearby,”
declares the LORD,
“and not a God far away?

God starts off this passage by asking if He’s “only a God nearby“.  That’s so different from our topic today, it’s almost funny.  Back then, there were false prophets who were claiming that God said it was OK for the people to do things that were clearly against the Old Testament Law.  And the people listened.  So God used Jeremiah to let them know about these false prophets, and to let the Israelites and the false prophets know that God wasn’t just some “local god” they could somehow run away from.

In that light, a God far away didn’t mean God was actually far away.  It meant that God was both nearby and far away.  In other words, everywhere.  This is made plain in the next verse.

Jer 23:24 Can anyone hide in secret places
so that I cannot see him?”
declares the LORD.
“Do not I fill heaven and earth?”
declares the LORD.

God sees everything.  He is everywhere.

The Son – everywhere, at all times

The Great Commission

Mt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

If Jesus is going to be with them / us until the end of the age, then He has to be everywhere, all the time.  Somehow.

The Holy Spirit – everywhere, at all times

For the Holy Spirit, let’s turn to something David said.  Remember, in the Old Testament, only certain people were given the Holy Spirit.  Even then, it was only for a time.  And no one had the presence of the Holy Spirit in those days as much as David.

Ps 139:7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

Ps 139:8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.

Ps 139:9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,

Ps 139:10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

Remember the Jeremiah passage where God said He wasn’t just a local God?  With David, or any of us, we are most certainly local people.  As the saying goes, wherever we are – that’s where we’re at.  David’s knowledge that God was everywhere had to come from faith.  Like us – there’s just no way we can physically verify that God really is everywhere.

Where is God?  Omnipresent?  Still don’t believe?

Some of us have the faith to believe, just as David did.  But many people don’t.

In that light, everything I wrote above is all well and good for the person who has some understanding of what this is all about.  And who also has the faith that God is in fact three persons in one.

But then – that person isn’t likely to be asking the questions that we’re examining here. They aren’t going to be asking does God exist?  And if He does exist – where is He?

How do we simplify this but not lose the point and the meaning?

I think that Jesus answered this question of where is God in a simpler way.  One that His disciples would understand.  One that we should also understand.  At least, understand as much as it’s possible for us to do so.  Faith will always be required.

Prayer – Matthew

Mt 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Mt 6:9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“ ‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,

Mt 6:10 your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.

Mt 6:11 Give us today our daily bread.

Mt 6:12 Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Mt 6:13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.’ 14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”

I included not only the entire prayer, but the surrounding context Jesus gave for it.  I like to do that, just to be complete – and maybe to spark some interest in what’s going on.

However, for this topic, notice the first line of this prayer – ‘Our Father in heaven,…’

At this time, Jesus didn’t get into the details of how God is “three in one”.  And He didn’t try to explain how God the Father is everywhere. He made it very simple – ‘Our Father in heaven,…’

If you’re asking the question, “where is God?” – this would seem to be a good starting place for where is God The Father.  He’s in Heaven. At this point, don’t even worry about where is Heaven. Keep it simple. Making things overly complex all at once doesn’t help.  For the moment, just know God the Father is in Heaven.

This may seem odd.  Maybe you think I’m asking for a leap of faith that you’re not ready for. Actually, that’s exactly what Jesus told His disciples :

Jn 16:12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.”

There will be more on this verse later.  But let’s start with this.

What about God, the Son?

Jesus was here on earth.  He was crucified.  He rose from the dead.  And ascended to Heaven. When Jesus appeared to the Disciples after rising from the dead, we have this account of what happened from Luke 24:36-53 –

Jesus Appears to the Disciples

Lk 24:36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

Lk 24:37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

Lk 24:40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.

Lk 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Lk 24:45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

The Ascension

Lk 24:50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.

Yes, there’s a lot in there.  But notice the part about – Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. If you’re still asking the “Where is God” question, don’t worry about the deeper questions yet.  There are plenty of other articles to get deeper into the other things in that passage.

Take what Jesus has said here at face value for now.
God The Father is in Heaven.
God The Son (Jesus) was in Heaven – came to earth – and returned to Heaven.

This leaves God, The Holy Spirit.
Where is the Holy Spirit?

Jesus promises Holy Spirit

Jn 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

Jn 14:22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

Jn 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Jn 14:25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

Jn 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, 31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
“Come now; let us leave.”

Let’s look at a couple of these statements in more detail –

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth.
…
On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

On that day, when the Holy Spirit is in us, then we will begin to understand the true relationship between The Father, The Son, the Holy Spirit, and us. On that day, when the Holy Spirit is in you and you have an acceptable answer to “Where is God”, then we will understand more. However, until then, look at the words Jesus had for those who didn’t yet have the Holy Spirit in them.

Jn 14:25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

OK – so:
We have God The Father – in Heaven.
We have God The Son – also in Heaven after a brief stay as a human here on earth.
And we have the Counselor – God The Holy Spirit somehow here with us to teach and remind us.

Now – we’re left with one question –
where is The Holy Spirit?
He’s going to teach us and remind us – where is He?

Remember when I said this whole thing started seven years ago?  Well – we need to jump back to then for just a moment.  What comes next is from an article I read while waiting in the doctor’s office. It’s from the April 2012 issue of Discover Magazine. (Yes – the doctor’s office actually had a current magazine! Amazing, isn’t it?) Anyway – the article was titled Physicists Carve a Niche in Time.  Don’t run off because it says Physicists.  I’ll keep it simple.

The article starts off with –

Physicists routinely baffle reporters, but for once things went the other way. Alexander Gaeta was sitting in his Cornell University office in the fall of 2010 when a reporter called to ask his opinion of a strange new paper in the Journal of Optics. What did he think about the claim that it might be possible to create a time cloak, a device that could render events undetectable?

Gaeta was caught off guard. He was still grappling with the invisibility cloak, a wild idea that turned into reality in 2006, when physicists demonstrated that a class of synthetic materials could bend light completely around an object. (Think of water in a stream flowing around a rock.) Without light bouncing off the object, it would essentially disappear.

If we wonder about things like where is Heaven. where are angels (including the fallen ones), why don’t we see any of them – that’s like in another “world”. I have other articles on parallel universes, quantum physics, Etc. on the site to talk about those things.  You can use the search box to find them.  But I said I’d keep it simple here.  Anyway, this is our world, our universe, our point in time.  See?  Simple.  Restrict to the world we live in every day and the things we observe.  How can God do things that we can’t see?  How can He be all around us?  How can He be in us?  All those things and we can’t see Him?

I guess the question comes down to this: how can these other universes – other times – other dimensions – coexist with ours – in the same space at the same time?

With the inanimate objects – we saw that they can’t.
With people – we saw that we can work it out – negotiate – so that we can share a larger space without having to deal with the issue of occupying the exact same smaller space, like who sits on which end of a couch instead of both people wanting the right side.

But what about this spirit thing?

Defending Your Faith says the Holy Spirit is omnipresent – everywhere all the time.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit cannot be seen, but will be in us.

The article in Discover Magazine talks about how physicists are able to hide objects that most definitely exist, but we can’t see them. It’s real, they did it. Only for the tiniest fraction of a second, but they did it.

If we can do that – people, human physicists – think what the ultimate physicist – God – can do. I can’t even begin to imagine what else occupies the same time and space as us. There’s no limit as to what He can do.

Our physicists know that there are gaps in the laws of science as we “know” them. Alternate dimensions and universes must exist, they say. That’s the only thing that would explain why the current laws don’t quite work – they explain the differences.

Where is God?  In the physicists reasoning?

I would think that at some point – God has to come into the equation.

There is so much order to the universe.
There are so many unanswered questions.
There are so many gaps in our knowledge, but we “know” there are some laws that must control them too.
There is way too much order to just be random.
It has to be controlled.  Well controlled, or the universe couldn’t exist.  But it does.

Every time I read an article like this, I hope to see some mention of God.
Every time we learn something new –
learn more to fill in the gaps in our knowledge –
learn that things are even more complex and more ordered than we thought –
I keep hoping to read that God is seen as the guiding hand behind all of this.

Was it in this article?

No.

Here’s what they concluded with –

One can’t help but wonder whether bank robbers and terrorists could use the technology to conceal their activities. … They’d be able to hide not only what they are doing but that they are doing anything at all.

Unfortunately, all that does is confirm something God said about people.  Something that goes way back to Genesis.  Something that was behind the flood.  You know – the one with Noah?

Ge 6:5 The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. 7 So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Yes.  The physicists had the opportunity to put God into what they found.  Instead, they concluded with bank robbers and terrorists.

every inclination of the thoughts of his (people’s) heart was only evil all the time

So sad.  But so true.

I read that article and think of the possibility that we have yet another “law of nature” that was built in by God – for God – and for us. This one could possibly be a way for God The Holy Spirit to interact with us. And all they can think of is whether it can be used by crooks and terrorists.

More on Where is God, the Holy Spirit?

Rather than close on that dismal thought, let’s look at a few more words from Jesus.

The Work of the Holy Spirit

Jn 16:5 “Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Jn 16:12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

Jn 16:16 “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”

Let me repeat part of that –

But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

In the words for the disciples, who did not yet have The Holy Spirit, who did not yet truly understand – Jesus told them He had to go, so that the Holy Spirit could come to them.

After that, then they would begin to understand.

If this is where you’re at, don’t try to “get” the deep stuff.  Jesus didn’t expect His disciples, who traveled with Him for three years, to get it all at once.  Why should we think that somehow we’ll “get it” all at once.  In fact, from that passage, why do we think we’ll ever truly get all of it?

Take Jesus words the way they were given.
Take the invitation for the Holy Spirit – The Counselor – to be in you.
Then begin to understand the deeper issues.

As I said, this article isn’t to say for sure that The Holy Spirit works thought the concepts brought out in the Discovery Magazine article.
To say that would be to put God in a box – to say that we actually know how He works.
It’s merely to propose a possibility – to show that saying “It’s not possible” isn’t really an option.
To say that God can’t exist not only around us – but in us – that’s to say that our human physicists can do something that God cannot do.
And that’s not only saying we are “like” God – but that we’re better than God.

Notice, at verse 12 in the passage above, Jesus Himself tells us that there’s more to know. He tells us that we will be guided on this journey by The Holy Spirit. Not that we will know it all – that’s not possible. But that He will guide us “into all truth“.  We need to be patient.  Wait for it.  Learn, but don’t expect everything at once.

Where is God?  Finding God is a journey.

It’s a great journey.

It’s the ability to see what the greatest minds in science can come up with, and then to use that to see how God is even that much greater than we can ever imagine.

So – what about the original questions?

Ro 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

I believe that all these scientific advances just provide more and more evidence that the answers to the questions are the same.  And yes, the answer is plain, obvious – but only if we want to see it.  If we don’t want to see the evidence of God, we reach conclusions like the one where terrorists are going to use the discovery.  If we want to see God, we’ll reach a very different conclusion.

Is God still here?  Oh yeah – He’s still here. If He wasn’t here, we wouldn’t be.

Where is God?  Right here.  Yes, wherever you are, God is right there with you.

Does God still care?  Yes to that too. If He didn’t care – we wouldn’t be.

Jesus asked His disciples one time –

Mark 8:18 “Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear?”

How are your eyes and ears?

Where is God?  The advanced answer?

Starting with the diagram from Defending your faith, we’ve looked at God as three different “persons”.  And we read all sorts of stuff – and hear it too, that God is three-in-one.  So we think of it that way.  Three.  And it is, somehow.  And yet, it also isn’t.  God is one God.

That idea is brought forth, although with no explanation, in Isaiah.  Given the relationship the Hebrew people had with God at the time, it was probably incredibly confusing.  Not so much complicated.  More like, what is God talking about?  Here’s what I mean.

To Us a Child Is Born

Isa 9:1 Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan—

Isa 9:2 The people walking in darkness
have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of the shadow of death
a light has dawned.

Isa 9:3 You have enlarged the nation
and increased their joy;
they rejoice before you
as people rejoice at the harvest,
as men rejoice
when dividing the plunder.

Isa 9:4 For as in the day of Midian’s defeat,
you have shattered
the yoke that burdens them,
the bar across their shoulders,
the rod of their oppressor.

Isa 9:5 Every warrior’s boot used in battle
and every garment rolled in blood
will be destined for burning,
will be fuel for the fire.

Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.

It’s a prophecy.  About some future Messiah.  A Savior who will deliver the people and bring them back to God.  But all those names?  They would have meant nothing at the time.  Yes, they meant a future hope.  But in what form, at what time, how would it happen?  They had no idea.

Sure, we look back, and we see something.  Again, we see it if we want to.  But look what the names are for this child.  The child will be Jesus.  And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

They didn’t know that Wonderful Counselor would be the Holy Spirit.
Not did they know the God they called YAHWEH would be known as Everlasting Father.
And they didn’t know this Messiah would be called Prince of Peace.
All they knew was Mighty God.

Now, fast forward to Jesus’ time.

Jesus the Way to the Father

Jn 14:5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jn 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Jn 14:8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jn 14:9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.”

Jesus says He and the Father are one.  Many times.  Not two different lines in a diagram – but one.  In some way and for some reason, God appears to us in different ways.  But still, He’s One God.

And the Holy Spirit?  How does He fit in here?  What we’ve read in this article comes close to approaching the answer, but not quite putting it plainly.  Certainly not as plainly as Paul did.

Wisdom From the Spirit

1Co 2:6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:

“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him”— 10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment:

1Co 2:16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?”

But we have the mind of Christ.

Yes, Paul goes into more detail on the Holy Spirit.  Because of that, I included the entire passage.  But for this article, it’s the very last line that I want to especially pay attention to.

But we have the mind of Christ.

The Holy Spirit is the mind of Jesus.  Just as Jesus and the Father are one – Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one.  And as spiritual beings, they can and do exist everywhere.  It still takes faith.  It’s still something beyond what we’re capable of literally proving.  And yet – there it is.

Where is God?  The Beatles actually used the answer to that in a song.  Not about God.  However, God is the only one who is truly:

Here, there, and everywhere.

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